Bryan Ferry interview, 1987. Full transcript
Transcript of an interview I did with Bryan Ferry in 1987. That he was available for a phoner was a sign of the record label's panic but in retrospect Bête Noire was a perfectly respectable, patchy, dynamic album for an emotionally reclusive mid-career artist taking yet another swing at trans-Atlantic success. The most English of musicians, Ferry relocated to Los Angeles and New York often without ever quite landing. Bête Noire sports the quintessential Ferryesque contradictions: produced by Patrick Leonard; circumflex on the title. There are at least three great tracks on it, an average we settled for until the full service of Mamouna in 1994. There was no phone interview for that.
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CT: I like Bête Noire - are you pleased with it?
Ferry: Oh thanks. Yes, I think so. To tell you the truth I haven't heard it for a while; I've been talking about it endlessly it seems for about three months and yes, I think it has its moments. And generally I'm really pleased with it because I spent a lot of time making it as you probably realise. I put a lot of time and effort into it, and care… loving attention, and there are lots of great players on it; good musicians and different combinations of them, so I guess it's got plenty of variety in it. Built to last - good, sturdy classic, one owner…
There's no ballad on the album – no 'Slave to Love' or 'True to Life'. Are you less of a balladeer than people expect you to be?
Well… I guess I probably am less of a balladeer, less of a… people always use that word "crooner" which always amuses me. 'The Name Of The Game' is the closest to what you would call a ballad as such, in as much as it is not at all a dance track or anything, and that's a kind of interesting one I think. I wrote some of the songs with Patrick Leonard, which was kind of an interesting departure for me. At the beginning of the album I thought it would be interesting to try writing the album with different types of people…
I guess because Boys And Girls was a more personal type of record, and I hadn't done any co-writing really except with people in the group, in Roxy, and even then, not very often. So I just asked around I asked the record company. I've never done that before (laughs) Asked my A&R people, y'know, if they had any ideas, since I never listen to other people's records. One suggested – this was Warner Bros, Lenny Waronker, actually, who used to produce and now he's like the president there, he used to produce those Ry Cooder albums, which were really good – and he suggested Patrick Leonard and Johnny Marr, both very different from each other, and I thought, yeah, sure.
With the Johnny thing they sent me some tapes of what he'd done – I'd heard the Smiths before but not very much; I'd never listened to an album. I still haven't. (laughs) But I heard a few singles, which were interesting I thought, anyway they sent me this cassette of Johnny's instrumental things. The track that we did, the Smiths actually did an instrumental version of that track at one point. That was 'The Right Stuff' anyway. That worked out really well - I really liked working with him and hopefully we'll do some more work with Johnny because we got on very well. He's a bit more loose than a lot of the guitarists I've worked with but I like his low- slung approach, very nice, very kind of fresh approach. He lives the life very much… very nice guy, actually.
Do you look at a guy like that and feel old?
Not really, because you really tend to find with music, and I hope with the music I make, that it really tends to cut across barriers of all kinds, not only racial and national ones but also age and musical style barriers as well. On these albums I've been making lately it's been like half of them are black and half of them are American, and some of them are from one type of music and some are from another. On this album there's somebody like Johnny and Guy Pratt who are in like their early twenties, and then these Argentinian tango musicians who are in their sixties… and it's all music and they all swing.
There was a contradiction like that on Manifesto – there were two different versions of the same side.
Oh that's right, yeah. Two different records in one, wasn't it?
And it seemed that you could go for that mainstream American sound or back to an almost avant-garde sound..
And I ended up going nowhere (laughs).
What, with Flesh & Blood?
Yes… To me they all kind of relate to each other, it's difficult for me to look at them as objectively as other people because they're all part of me. One of my favourite ones is still For Your Pleasure which is like 1973, but in the same year I did These Foolish Things which is very different and also I did Stranded that year. I still don't know how I managed to do it…I wish I had some of what I had then, whatever it was.
'Zamba' and the title track seem eccentric and macabre, and when I first heard the album they were very odd and challenging, and not what I expected to hear.
I'm very pleased to hear you say that. I felt they were too, and they for me they reminded me of the For Your Pleasure album although I don't know why.
'Zamba reminds me of 'Beauty Queen'.
Yeah! Yeah, that's right, it has a kind of clarity about it, a starkness or something. Oh good…it's not all in vain then (laughs).
Some of your B-sides too; 'Always Unknowing' and 'Nocturne'.
Oh yeah?
I thought they were some of the best things you've done.
Wow that's good. Maybe I should try and collect them together some day. It's kind of painful, though, because I'm not sure that I'll ever get them though, I broke up with the people who used to manage me for 15 years during the making of this album, and it's all up in the air as to what's going to happen to all those little things. There are one or two things which I'd like to get out at some point. It's interesting too that 'Crazy Love' which was done during the Bride Stripped Bare sessions just came out on a soundtrack in America, and I heard it when I was in America a few weeks ago. It's on a John Hughes film. It was good to hear that one sounded really good actually there, wonderful guitar - Neil Hubbard again, who is one of the unsung heroes of my records in the last 10 years. He played a lot on Avalon and Boys & Girls and this one.
There's another one I did which was mixed and completed, what's it called, 'He'll Have To Go', a country song (laughs) which was also from those sessions. And I've got lots of little instrumental things.
Did you know that 'New Town' I started that one, half of it was written in the Manifesto days. I remember doing this strange sequence which I really liked, the chords, and I kept coming back to it, to this cassette, saying Mmm, I really must do something with this someday. Ten years ago! And people would say "Mmm, yes, very nice" and then move on (laughs) and I played it to Chester Kamen who was working with me on some of the tracks and he really liked it, and encouraged me to finish it off. Turned out really well I really like that one.
Like 'Wasteland' I get the impression that there are lots of tracks like that hidden away which would make an album up and the record company would just say, "No."
I think that. Well, I think I've had it now with trying to be accessible – this is as far as I can go, with 'Kiss And Tell', which was in fact started started well over two years ago. I did a track called 'Is Your Love Strong Enough'. I do like the 12" of that, the dub mix especially. Do try and check that out.
How do you work?
Usually it's always the same tape. I keep using the analogy of painting, it's very similar and it's how I'll always think about how I work, so forgive me if it sounds odd or pretentious, but it's very much like working over the same canvas, and you paint over a certain section and stand back from it, come back a few weeks later and come back and try something again, a different colour, a different musician, whatever. It's an interesting way to work, but a very long and convoluted one. I don't think I can afford to make them like that any more, I'm afraid, it's too expensive. Which is why I've been doing this dreadful promotion lark for two or three months.
Do you work on instrumentals which have no shape until you put the vocals on top?
I think I get more shape instrumentally, I really work a long time on the music and then the vocal part is usually the tip of the iceberg. Obviously now I use a lot of different singers as well because I like to hear lots of high voices, and voices other than my own. It's the chorus idea from theatre, the Greek chorus idea, it's always interesting to me, especially in songs that have choruses, y'know (laughs), I don't like to hear myself all the time. Can you hang on a bit there's somebody at the door… [pause] Sorry, just the record company people
Are they keeping you busy?
No, I just got in today, it's a hell of a long journey, from London. It's been a light day today, just two interviews.
At the time of Avalon you were saying why do we have to tour, why can't we just make a video of the album and send it out?. Do you still feel the same way?
Pretty much – probably more so, because now I'm married with two children. I have a family to try and see as well, and obviously I don't want to miss these very important years because it's such a great thing… I don't want to bore you about it. I can't really make records of the quality I want to make them and tour as well, and have a life as well as that. It's too demanding and too crazy and touring is too intense for me. I feel it's a dilution of energy which I'd rather put into the studio. And, I think the people that listen to my music – I'm very grateful that they'd want to come and see me play but at the end of the day I think they'd prefer it for me to make good records.
So many people get into that tunnel of performance and recording and the work that they do ends up not being so interesting because they don't have a life to nourish it, and I think it's important to lead an interesting kind of life so that you can get some ideas. Airports and hotel lobbies – one needs other experiences.
You sound as if married life is treating you well.
Yes it's um… it's um….it's good… yes… You've made me embarrassed now.
I saw you and your son in Arena magazine.
Ah yes, yes. Jolly old soul (laughs). I get to learn all the old nursery rhymes again 'Hey Diddle Diddle' is a particular favourite.
How are you going to feel when the kids are grown up and chasing the same things that you were chasing on For Your Pleasure?
Very annoyed. I'd quite like them to stay how they are, they're very amusing like this. It'd be quite nice to freeze them at a certain age, keep them as pets I think. (laughs)
Does your wife drag you out to parties?
She tries to, with not much success. We are going to a party in March I believe..
You book them that far ahead?
She has to kind of get advance warning in, get me mentally prepared for once. I tend not to like them very much.
Would you like to become more anonymous?
Oh sure, yes. I get a bit unsure about pushing the personality, y'know. That whole image thing can get in the way of the music so easily. It's a drag, it's very hard to find the right sort of balance for that. Obviously. in the Roxy days it was much much easier; one could hide behind the name or that very anonymous glamour-girl image, which I preferred quite frankly.
Was that part of the reason for getting back with Roxy?
It was kind of curiosity as much as anything else. I didn't feel that we were played out, the chemistry that is, and I thought we could make an interesting album. It's probably related to the fact that The Bride Stripped Bare didn't sell at all well. There's always a few reasons for doing anything. I always have several reasons for anything I do that's important. Like the title of the album, Bête Noire, there's not just one reason for that. The idea comes to you and you think yeah, this has lots of connotations, it's very evocative, what a great name for a perfume (laughs) or y'know, an artist's nightclub or rendezvous, or Paris in the twenties, or posters you could see with Bête Noire and you'd think Oh I'd like to go there, where's that? At the same time, that song was one of the more interesting ones, as you said, of the collection.
The way you've described Bête Noire could apply to "Roxy" or "stranded" – an idea, a place or a time.
Exactly, exactly.
You're threatening to change your working technique; does that mean we'll see the next album in less than two years?
I'm thinking of a garage-type sound (laughs). Since the last year I've been travelling around a lot; changes of record company, changes of management, lots of frantic goings-on behind as it were, so hopefully everything is going to be resolved in that department come April, and then, with any luck, I'll be back in London and possibly be in a position to make an album there, and possibly with a smaller group of people – I don't know who yet. So I could imagine it being a less arduous process, perhaps.
Your solo albums have always involved a lot of people.
I know. There's been this thing of looking for different people, trying a different formula as it were, and it's been interesting doing it that way but this time out I might do it with a smaller group of people, and I'm thinking about doing some old songs again, or whatever.
Cover versions?
Possibly, just as a break from writing. We'll see what happens.
You seemed to learn off cover versions, loosen up and have fun.
Yes, it's good to have a lighter side to it, and that was one of the great things about the early days when the songs I was choosing had a different flavour from the ones I was writing myself. It was very good for me. It was like, if you think about Picasso and his paintings, on the side he was doing his ceramics and little sketches and lots of different things. It's good to always try and extend your repertoire.
You seem to have a great talent for developing other people.
I think that's what I'm best at. It's more difficult if the people are people like Marcus Miller who play fantastically anyway. Sometimes it's good to direct people who are not so proficient and that was one of the good things about Roxy; the players had a very good attitude rather than being wonderful technicians. It meant that I could really get my teeth into what they were playing and direct them quite happily.
That was one of the things I didn't do so much on the solo albums because I was working with players I didn't know so well. Now I know the people I'm working with on the albums quite well Paul Hubbard, Andy Newmark, and even [David] Gilmour's played with me on the last couple of albums. I have more confidence I think, with dealing with strangers. I used to be more reticent with telling people that I didn't know what to do.
You still had to rush album at the end.
Yeah to try and meet the deadline and get it out before Christmas. I really wanted to get it out in '87.
Do you work better on a deadline?
Probably, I think I do. I need to be goaded into action.
Roxy had to rush things...
Yeah that was always the case. Like cramming for exams the night before.
How do you feel about the artwork for those albums being reduced down to CD size?
Oh I'm quite pleased they don't look bad, in fact. They were always designed for that 12 by 12 inch scale, and even Bête Noire is, but I guess it's probably time now to start designing from that other size up. The other things outsell LPs now, cassettes and CDs… One has great nostalgia for the vinyl version, of course.
How long till the next one?
I dunno. Got to try and beat the Christmas rush, I expect. I really can't say; I'm gonna try and start as soon as I finish all this ballyhoo, I have to go to Japan after here and then, what's it called, have a holiday for two weeks in Switzerland, and then I'm going to start in April, May. Do you think 'Limbo' should be the next single?
I think 'Day For Night'.
Oh, that's interesting. I think at the moment they're talking about 'Limbo' or 'Name Of The Game'. I'll probably have to do another video for one of them in April, so I'll probably have to get started on the album in May.
Sounds like you're having fun on the videos, with the Profumo references…
Christine Keeler, yeah. I just thought it was a good idea at the time. The song is about scandal and those sort of kiss-and-tell memoirs about scandal so I thought it would be good for Art to imitate Life (laughs), so I got Mandy Smith, who was very much in evidence in the English tabloids about a month ago; so a young girl and one from the sixties, because Christine Keeler was the biggest ever scandal of that nature in Britain. Have they shown the video there yet?
The video for 'Slave To Love' was quite seedy.
I think it was reasonably tasteful compared with 'Kiss and Tell'. That looks kind of vulgar, but that's because of the tartiness of the song, as it were.
Some of the people in it looked as though they could do a bit of damage...
I suppose you have to watch yourself, yeah (laughs) I enjoyed talking to you. I guess I've kept these people waiting I've got to see the "Virgin Promotion Team". Sounds like a sort of basketball team.
They'll be waiting outside with pom-poms, cheering.
Yeah. I hope so.